"The Walking Dead" is back

[b0bo]

Payne, that's a good theory and makes some sense.  If that was the case, do you think Shane knew he was infected and kind of wanted Rick to kill him?  My theory is that something went airborne a bit after this all started, and now everyone is somewhat infected so when they die, no matter what the reason (save for massive head trauma), they'll come back as zombies.  I don't think this could've always been the case, because we saw all those dead people in their cars at the beginning of the season.  The only way around that would be that they all sat in their cars with the windows rolled up because they were surrounded, and slowly boiled their brains.  There were no visible head wounds on any of those people.

I agree with this theory. Though I forgotten about the people that were dead in their cars and did not come back as zombies. Other things that have alluded to the already infected virus theory is the two security guards a few episodes back. They had no visible bite marks and were indeed zombies. Also, I forget what episode it was but there was a walker that was hanging by a noose in a tree. Now was that done by a man that had been bit and infected and wanted to kill himself, or was it done by a man giving up on the fight, dying due to suicide, and coming back zombie style.

Perhaps I am thinking too deep into this but the comic/ show title alone can mean two separate things. 1) The zombies are the "walking dead", because they are dead and walking around. 2) The people are the "walking dead", because they are infected with the zombie virus, meaning that there is no hope or cure for anyone, so they are "dead" but are still walking around.

[GeneralCinema]

I looked for an update on this series in the forums and decided that this was the latest thread.  Again, just to remind everybody NO SPOILERS FROM THE COMIC ON THINGS THAT HAVEN'T HAPPENED YET OR COULD POSSIBLY HAPPEN LATER!!!! I'm not referring to anything you've said GC, I just feel that it bears repeating since I've seen many a person's dreams get crushed by all the douches over on IMDB intentionally (or unintentionally) throwing spoilers out there.  Having said that, anything from the latest episode back is fair game.  If you aren't caught up, I would stop reading.  Now, let's begin...

What's people's take on all the shit that's been going down? The standoff in the bar in the "Nebraska" episode was some of the most tense/awesome shit I've seen in years.  Unbelievable.  Of course now I'm bummed.  First they hit me with Dale getting offed, then they bury me with Shane getting killed.  I believe there was a collective gasp around the world when that happened.  I have to tell you, there may be a little side story on Shane maybe getting scratched by a zombie in an earlier episode and slowly going insane.  I'm just guessing, but he was really struggling with sanity.  We might not get much time to mourn Shane and Dale though, as next week looks like some serious downsizing.  What do you all think?

I don't spoil the comic for fear that it might spoil the show.  I will, however, tell you that Shane's death in the comic was MUCH more dramatic than in the show.  I'll spoil that now since Shane is dead in the series.

After Rick finds the group of survivors (including his family) and the weapons get recovered, everyone is given shooting lessons.  Shane takes Rick out to the woods to go "hunting" and before Rick can be shot...this happens:


**********NOTE: THIS IS THE ONLY SPOILER I WILL GIVE OUT.  IF ANYONE WANTS TO KNOW MORE, MESSAGE ME.**********



































**********SPOILERS AHEAD - THIS IS YOUR FINAL WARNING - TURN BACK NOW IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW**********************

[GiveMeGore]

I love how Payne went out of his way pleaing for no one to drop spoilers and that's exactly what GC turns around and does. Maybe I'm the only one who finds that move hystericaly douchish......

[traumamama]

The spoiler was for something that's already been resolved on the show.  Thanks for the panel, GC, I'm going to share it with some people.  It's weird to think about what a strong presence Shane had on the show, considering that technically he should've been gone within the first few episodes.

[GeneralCinema]

I love how Payne went out of his way pleaing for no one to drop spoilers and that's exactly what GC turns around and does. Maybe I'm the only one who finds that move hystericaly douchish......

Payne said "NO SPOILERS FROM THE COMIC ON THINGS THAT HAVEN'T HAPPENED YET OR COULD POSSIBLY HAPPEN LATER!!!!"

I posted on something that already happened.  Season 3 will introduce The Governor.  I won't spoil ANYTHING about that motherfucker.  Let's just say that his role in the show will most likely be Sesame Street compared to the comic.  There aren't enough descriptive words I can use for him.

[Marshal Earp]

What the heck Traum, how can you possible have any compassion for that sick bastard Shane?

From episode 1 season 1 he has been hot for Rick's wife, it was obvious before the zombie outbreak even happened.

Then, he lies to her, abandons his best freind and leaves him for dead just so he can bang his wife!

Then when Rick comes back to them the first thing that prick Shane does is try to shoot Rick in the woods, if it wasn't for Dale walking in on it Rick would have been dead in episode 2 of the first season. Yes, his best friend since childhood.

He has been one cold, evil sadistic bastard from the start. He's a coward, a liar, a cold blooded murder, and a shitty, SHITTY friend.

Every action he took in this show was based on fear. He's the most cowardly one of them all. Don't even get me started on him shooting the fat guy that saved his life!

Now as for Darryl, I'm with you. He's my favorite charachter by a mile. Rick is awesome too. His actions aren't stupid, he tries to do what's right. And when it's time to throw down like in the bar scene, he's a bad mo fo.

[GeneralCinema]

The spoiler was for something that's already been resolved on the show.  Thanks for the panel, GC, I'm going to share it with some people.  It's weird to think about what a strong presence Shane had on the show, considering that technically he should've been gone within the first few episodes.

The intense part of the scene from the comic is the aftermath of Shane's death.  You'll have to read it yourself...

[WL Paynecraft]

I was a huge Shane fan as well.  Me and my brother also caught the little undercurrent that Shane and Lori may have had some pre-zombiegeddon going's-on.  It's intriguing to say the least.

I gravitate more towards flawed characters in movies than I do the hero's, though they kick ass also.  I think it's the underdog mentality in me.  One of my more favorite characters in Lord of the Rings wasn't necessarily Aragorn (though I liked him), but Boromir.  Same reasoning.

I kept pulling for Shane and Rick to reconcile.  I even thought that before Rick stabbed Shane, that there was a slight chance that Shane would change his ways.  I don't know man.  Shane was too far gone.  That creepy look he gave Rick when Shane was following him in the woods looking for Randall kinda confirmed that Rick felt the same way.  Rick's no fool.  He proved that in the bar in the "Nebraska" episode.

I can't help it man.  Liked the dude.  Gonna have a "Shane social" this weekend in tribute.

[Marshal Earp]

I was a huge Shane fan as well.  Me and my brother also caught the little undercurrent that Shane and Lori may have had some pre-zombiegeddon going's-on.  It's intriguing to say the least.

I gravitate more towards flawed characters in movies than I do the hero's, though they kick ass also.  I think it's the underdog mentality in me.  One of my more favorite characters in Lord of the Rings wasn't necessarily Aragorn (though I liked him), but Boromir.  Same reasoning.

I kept pulling for Shane and Rick to reconcile.  I even thought that before Rick stabbed Shane, that there was a slight chance that Shane would change his ways.  I don't know man.  Shane was too far gone.  That creepy look he gave Rick when Shane was following him in the woods looking for Randall kinda confirmed that Rick felt the same way.  Rick's no fool.  He proved that in the bar in the "Nebraska" episode.

I can't help it man.  Liked the dude.  Gonna have a "Shane social" this weekend in tribute.

I'm totally with you on the whole underdog thing like Boromir in Lord of the Rings Payne. But I don't see underdog with Shane. IMO, they drew him waaaay to evil.

I see a guy who lusted his best freinds life from the start. He wanted his wife, his kid, eveything. He would stop at nothing to obtain his own selfish, evil goals. Dale saw him for who he was and the writers of the show IMO tried to make it clear to us, "hey listen, this is one bad dude".

It's not like he had just a bad moment or two. He was a total asshole the entire series. And what bugged me more is that so much of the things he did was based purely out of fear. The guy was a total coward.

Now granted he did have his moments, like when he beat the hell out of the guy for hitting his wife. Loved that. But overall he did way too many hideous things for me to find an ounce of compassion for the guy.

[traumamama]

What the heck Traum, how can you possible have any compassion for that sick bastard Shane?

From episode 1 season 1 he has been hot for Rick's wife, it was obvious before the zombie outbreak even happened.

Then, he lies to her, abandons his best freind and leaves him for dead just so he can bang his wife!

Then when Rick comes back to them the first thing that prick Shane does is try to shoot Rick in the woods, if it wasn't for Dale walking in on it Rick would have been dead in episode 2 of the first season. Yes, his best friend since childhood.

He has been one cold, evil sadistic bastard from the start. He's a coward, a liar, a cold blooded murder, and a shitty, SHITTY friend.

Every action he took in this show was based on fear. He's the most cowardly one of them all. Don't even get me started on him shooting the fat guy that saved his life!

Now as for Darryl, I'm with you. He's my favorite charachter by a mile. Rick is awesome too. His actions aren't stupid, he tries to do what's right. And when it's time to throw down like in the bar scene, he's a bad mo fo.

Let me say this:  I'm not saying I thought Shane was a great guy.  I'm mourning because I loved the character.  I thought he was often the most interesting part of what was going on in whatever scene.  He obviously had evil in him.  HOWEVER, with the whole Otis thing- this was supposed to signify that he'd finally gone off the deep end?  They're being chased by a gang of zombies, and Otis is obviously lagging a little.  I'm not saying it was the right thing to do, but it seemed to Shane that it was his only option or Carl was going to die.  He obviously felt terrible about it but tried to keep up his tough guy exterior.  He did what he thought he had to do, and one person died instead of three.  It seems that you completely disagree with me on this, and most people I talk to seem pretty divided.  But it's really hard for any of us to put ourselves in any of the characters shoes, because in their world humanity is over.  In most horror movies, that "kill or be killed" mentality has taken over within the first few days, but here the only person who really seemed to go there quickly was Shane.  Everyone else held on to hope, which is admirable but kind of stupid.  Whether or not Shane was motivated by fear, he was right about the barn, he was right about stopping energy searching for a girl who was obviously dead, and he was right that it was fucking stupid for them to just keep living in tents around the farm.  I also believe he was the first one to state that the group was broken, not Darryl.  He didn't go about it the right way, but that doesn't mean he was wrong.

On to some of your other points:  You really think Shane went all the way to the hospital to rescue Rick, fought through all those zombies, then decided fuck it just because he wanted to bang Lori?  I think that was another tough call.  He finally gets to Rick and dude is in a coma, and there're zombies everywhere.  I would imagine he felt like it was a lost cause.  Then the military or whatever comes in and just starts shooting everything.  So he stays and tries to help and gets shot, gets attacked, or he gets out of there.  I wouldn't have thought Rick had a shot either.

The scene in the woods is not redeeming for Shane at all, you're right about that.  But I really don't think he would have taken the shot, even if Dale hadn't been there.  If he was set on it, he'd just kill Dale too.  It's not like dude had a lot of fight in him.  Other than the things we've discussed, the only other time Shane seemed like a terrible person was when they were at the CDC, and I definitely didn't like him then, but he was an interesting character to watch.

TL;DR In conclusion, I'm not mad that Shane is gone because I really liked him, I'm mad he's gone because he was a really interesting character.  Now that he's gone, though, maybe T-Dog can get more than one line an episode.

[traumamama]

Perhaps I am thinking too deep into this but the comic/ show title alone can mean two separate things. 1) The zombies are the "walking dead", because they are dead and walking around. 2) The people are the "walking dead", because they are infected with the zombie virus, meaning that there is no hope or cure for anyone, so they are "dead" but are still walking around.

The creator has stated that "The Walking Dead" refers to the people still alive, not the zombies, so you're right on.  He's been vague about exactly what he means, but I think your theory is right.

[Marshal Earp]

What the heck Traum, how can you possible have any compassion for that sick bastard Shane?

From episode 1 season 1 he has been hot for Rick's wife, it was obvious before the zombie outbreak even happened.

Then, he lies to her, abandons his best freind and leaves him for dead just so he can bang his wife!

Then when Rick comes back to them the first thing that prick Shane does is try to shoot Rick in the woods, if it wasn't for Dale walking in on it Rick would have been dead in episode 2 of the first season. Yes, his best friend since childhood.

He has been one cold, evil sadistic bastard from the start. He's a coward, a liar, a cold blooded murder, and a shitty, SHITTY friend.

Every action he took in this show was based on fear. He's the most cowardly one of them all. Don't even get me started on him shooting the fat guy that saved his life!

Now as for Darryl, I'm with you. He's my favorite charachter by a mile. Rick is awesome too. His actions aren't stupid, he tries to do what's right. And when it's time to throw down like in the bar scene, he's a bad mo fo.

Let me say this:  I'm not saying I thought Shane was a great guy.  I'm mourning because I loved the character.  I thought he was often the most interesting part of what was going on in whatever scene.  He obviously had evil in him.  HOWEVER, with the whole Otis thing- this was supposed to signify that he'd finally gone off the deep end?  They're being chased by a gang of zombies, and Otis is obviously lagging a little.  I'm not saying it was the right thing to do, but it seemed to Shane that it was his only option or Carl was going to die.  He obviously felt terrible about it but tried to keep up his tough guy exterior.  He did what he thought he had to do, and one person died instead of three.  It seems that you completely disagree with me on this, and most people I talk to seem pretty divided.  But it's really hard for any of us to put ourselves in any of the characters shoes, because in their world humanity is over.  In most horror movies, that "kill or be killed" mentality has taken over within the first few days, but here the only person who really seemed to go there quickly was Shane.  Everyone else held on to hope, which is admirable but kind of stupid.  Whether or not Shane was motivated by fear, he was right about the barn, he was right about stopping energy searching for a girl who was obviously dead, and he was right that it was fucking stupid for them to just keep living in tents around the farm.  I also believe he was the first one to state that the group was broken, not Darryl.  He didn't go about it the right way, but that doesn't mean he was wrong.

On to some of your other points:  You really think Shane went all the way to the hospital to rescue Rick, fought through all those zombies, then decided fuck it just because he wanted to bang Lori?  I think that was another tough call.  He finally gets to Rick and dude is in a coma, and there're zombies everywhere.  I would imagine he felt like it was a lost cause.  Then the military or whatever comes in and just starts shooting everything.  So he stays and tries to help and gets shot, gets attacked, or he gets out of there.  I wouldn't have thought Rick had a shot either.

The scene in the woods is not redeeming for Shane at all, you're right about that.  But I really don't think he would have taken the shot, even if Dale hadn't been there.  If he was set on it, he'd just kill Dale too.  It's not like dude had a lot of fight in him.  Other than the things we've discussed, the only other time Shane seemed like a terrible person was when they were at the CDC, and I definitely didn't like him then, but he was an interesting character to watch.

TL;DR In conclusion, I'm not mad that Shane is gone because I really liked him, I'm mad he's gone because he was a really interesting character.  Now that he's gone, though, maybe T-Dog can get more than one line an episode.

Well I 100% agree with you that Shane was a great charachter. I liked him in the way I liked Comidus from the movie "Gladiator", great slimey bad guy.

One thing you and others fail to mention about Shane's murdering of Otis is this one horrific thing:

He easily could have "mercy" killed Otis so he could escape to get the medicine to Rick's kid, walkers would have been busy feasting on Otis's dead body. Still wrong and a terrible thing to do but many could justify it, I see that. That's not what this lousy bastard Shane did, nope. He purposefuly shot Otis in the leg only injuring him to  be eaten alive by zombies!!!! It all goes back to Shane being a coward like he's been the entire series. You quite litterally could not have done anything more cruel to an innocent man than what he did to Otis, especially one who saved your life 5 minutes earlier!

No, I can't wrap my mind around the Otis killing as anything other than pure evil. Also can't find any sympathy for Shane as a tragic figure.

[GeneralCinema]

Shane only lasted 6 issues in the comic.  He was more of a douche bag than the evil prick in the show.  I love what Jon Bernthal did with the character and it made me wish that Shane lasted longer than he did.  In the show, Shane was (very) cowardly by hiding behind the authority that society had given him (because of that authority, the survivors followed him), he convinced his best friend's wife that her husband was dead, and he tried to usurp that same friend's family and authority (who clearly had better leadership skills). 

In the show we experience the downward spiral that becomes Shane's sanity.  With each episode he becomes less and less of a person - he's still human by definition, but by the end that humanity had packed up and left.

While I do enjoy the show, the comic brings it to such a personal level.

You truly get emotionally attached to everyone - Andrea is by far my favorite character in the comic, while Dale was my favorite in the show.  In the show, Andrea is a little too whiny and not hard-core enough. 

While I am looking forward to next season, I'm not looking forward to the sanitized story lines.

[traumamama]

So, a week later, what did everyone think of the finale?  My co-worker and I, who generally agree about most things on the show, differed a little in our views.  I was extremely pleased with the finale.  I had some minor grievances, mostly having to do with Lori.  After all but blatantly telling Rick to kill Shane, she is completely disgusted with him for actually doing so?  Never mind the fact that Rick was somewhat acting in self defense.  Besides that, I loved watching Rick unravel and finally having a breaking point.  I'm looking forward to Rick being more of a badass.  The entire zombie attack was very enjoyable, even if it didn't make a lot of sense.  They spend time talking about putting rations in the basement, Herschel says he'll die with his farm, the zombies never seem to even try to get into the house.  So they all risk their lives to just start shooting willy-nilly until they decide to just drive away.  Seems like a lot of wasted bullets to me, seems like they could have just gone to the basement and waited it out, but forget all that because thank god they are away from that farm.

One of my biggest problems with this show, besides the character development, is when they start shooting zombies that are nowhere near them.  I saw a little of this when Andrea was fending for herself in the woods.  She obviously has a very finite amount of bullets, why shoot zombies that are not an immediate threat?  But her rescue was a highlight of the episode, and I'm excited for this new character who seems to be the one the comic readers love the most.

So, besides Lori, some decision-making issues, and Herschel's self-reloading shotgun I thought this was a fantastic episode.

To go back real quick to the point Marshal made about Shane and Otis:  I'm not sure they've totally touched on if zombies will still eat something after it's dead.  If they have that's my bad.  I figured Shane shot him in the leg because zombies will walk right past anything not moving, and the whole point was to distract the zombies so he could get away.  My impression was that if he'd just shot him in the head the zombies would be way too dumb to realize that they had food right in front of them and kept going towards a moving Shane.  Just my opinion.

Also, here's an interesting read about one guy's opinion that things absolutely have to and will get better next season:

www.cracked.com/blog/5-reasons-the-walking-dead-has-to-get-better

[GeneralCinema]

So, a week later, what did everyone think of the finale?  My co-worker and I, who generally agree about most things on the show, differed a little in our views.  I was extremely pleased with the finale.  I had some minor grievances, mostly having to do with Lori.  After all but blatantly telling Rick to kill Shane, she is completely disgusted with him for actually doing so?  Never mind the fact that Rick was somewhat acting in self defense.  Besides that, I loved watching Rick unravel and finally having a breaking point.  I'm looking forward to Rick being more of a badass.  The entire zombie attack was very enjoyable, even if it didn't make a lot of sense.  They spend time talking about putting rations in the basement, Herschel says he'll die with his farm, the zombies never seem to even try to get into the house.  So they all risk their lives to just start shooting willy-nilly until they decide to just drive away.  Seems like a lot of wasted bullets to me, seems like they could have just gone to the basement and waited it out, but forget all that because thank god they are away from that farm.

One of my biggest problems with this show, besides the character development, is when they start shooting zombies that are nowhere near them.  I saw a little of this when Andrea was fending for herself in the woods.  She obviously has a very finite amount of bullets, why shoot zombies that are not an immediate threat?  But her rescue was a highlight of the episode, and I'm excited for this new character who seems to be the one the comic readers love the most.

So, besides Lori, some decision-making issues, and Herschel's self-reloading shotgun I thought this was a fantastic episode.

To go back real quick to the point Marshal made about Shane and Otis:  I'm not sure they've totally touched on if zombies will still eat something after it's dead.  If they have that's my bad.  I figured Shane shot him in the leg because zombies will walk right past anything not moving, and the whole point was to distract the zombies so he could get away.  My impression was that if he'd just shot him in the head the zombies would be way too dumb to realize that they had food right in front of them and kept going towards a moving Shane.  Just my opinion.

Also, here's an interesting read about one guy's opinion that things absolutely have to and will get better next season:

www.cracked.com/blog/5-reasons-the-walking-dead-has-to-get-better

The finale redeemed the show this season.  REALLY looking forward to what's gonna happen in the prison, although I can almost guarantee that it'll be Sesame Street compared to the comic - all of the most intense story lines happened during and just after the prison.  Plus we'll meet The Governor.

The way Rick was at the end of the show is how he is in the comic.  He's a complete badass who officially takes shit from nobody.  I think Andrew Lincoln is doing a stellar job with the character.  I'm annoyed at Laurie Holden as Andrea.  Andrea is my favorite character in the comic and she's completely hard-core.  Maybe on the show she's still toughening up...I don't know.

Andrea's rescuer is a character by the name of Michonne.  She wields a katana blade and is a fantastic character.  I wonder if AMC will show her ordeal during the prison (most likely not to the same extent).

Looking forward to next season, but I just with AMC would stop being a bunch of assholes about the show.  The Walking Dead is the ONLY show that AMC owns outright so they can (and are) do whatever the hell they feel like.  Bastards.