Get out and SHOCK the vote

[Doomsday]

Regardless of what George Carlin may have said, if you don't vote your complaint later carries no weight. I won't say you can't complain, because this is America and you can complain about anything you want. Your complaint will have absolutely nothing to stand on, though, because you did nothing to affect the outcome. The flipside of saying if you vote for a candidate and he/she screws things up you can say "I didn't vote for that guy" is if you don't vote and the winner actually makes positive changes to the country you still have to say "I didn't vote for that guy".

unless you complained beforehand that both guys were going to be awful, that your winner-take-all state would leave your 3rd party vote null and void, and then the elected guy ends up being awful.... then you can keep complaining.

[Doomsday]

I am not saying you are racist if you vote for McCain.

I'll say it!    Just as a joke though.

[Splatterscribe]

This sounds like twisted logic, but in my eyes Obama is too popular. When they had that 30 minute special about him the other night and it ended by going live to right here in South Florida at the Bank Atlantic Center,  I watched the crowds cheering and thought to myself "This isn't a politcal rally- it's a fucking rock concert!" I find that unnerving.

Remember Clinton's landslide victory against Dole?  He's still not that popular.  This is a black guy in politics... he's not exactly going to have all of America walking off of cliffs for him.  I know this just from the comments of some of my own redneck family members.  "I don't like McCain, but...."  and I'm too ashamed to type the rest of it.

Besides it was Bush who opened Guantanamo, tapped your phone, and tried to sell your medical records to the insurance industry.

Ironcially his skin tone has never even beena factor for me. I couldn't give a crap less.  When it was suggested back in the day that Colin Powell might run for office , I was all for it. He'd have made a fantastic and honorable president.  And yeah, black man or not, there are people -millions of them- who already will walk off a cliff for Obama- just watch his supporters at any of his rallies. They're one step away from making him their new golden calf.

As to that comment about Bush: McCain notwithstanding, I do not now, never did and never will be a Bush supporter. I've never voted for him and I'm looking forward to the end of his presidency. I'm not even sure who I'm voting for. I may put a write-in down or go independent just to give the finger to the lot of them.

? ? ? ?

I'm responding to your notion that Obama is too popular and your parallels to the "most notorius figures" being ushered in on the shoulders of cheering crowds.  I'm saying not voting for him for that reason doesn't make any sense.  He's not that popular, and we've already had our dictator.

Been doing a lot of reading up on the issues and both candidates (well, more reading anyway) . Here's my overall take on the election:

Even the electoral college seems like it may be on the swing towards Obama right now. I know from watching early voting here in Fla that the people are in love with the guy.  He's extremely popular. Read a newspaper and turn on the tv. Even the press has officially gone Obamarama on us. The way I see it, Obama's plan  focuses on the here and now. Due to the craptacular economy, that's really bringing people into the mix who normally don't give a frogs fat ass about politics (so a big thumbs up to the Obama camp for that). It's ironic: Say our soldiers are still dying overseas and you generally get an "Eh, what're you gonna do?" Say the pocket book is gonna take a hit and man oh man, run for the fucking hills 'cause it's going to be Pompeii all over again(that's just an observation- I'm guilty of it as much as anyone). If there's one thing that can overcome racist notions it's the promise of not losing everything you've worked for and ending up homeless. I'd bet money that there are more people right now who have distrusted Obama because of his name and skin tone who will let it go and vote for him to save their economic ass than there are people who will take it full course and vote against him because of hate and fear.

McCain's plan is more about looking at the long term effects of the decisions he'll make in office. He's trying to start the ball rolling and set up a system that doesn't end up where we are right now when our kids are adults and have to inherit this mess.
The problem with the latter approach is that we're teetering on the edge of another depression (I love how the pundits are warning we could be headed into a recession..no, man, we are in a fucking recession) and we need to take some immediate steps to resolve the issue. While I don't believe punishing business owners by having them shoulder the burden of the tax repsonsibility is a good idea (as it does not motivate people to open or expand a business, therefore cutting back on potential jobs) the fact is, there are more employees than employers and if the middle class goes down in flames, the rest is gonna fall like a row of dominoes. Trickle down economics is a notion  that doesn't work and that's McCain's sore spot (aside from a VP choice who appears increasingly ill-prepared for the job): Whittled down to it's most succinct form, his economic plan is based on the principle that when the business owners prosper, the employees will prosper accordingly. Problem is, time and time again we've seen that people who have the most money want more money and they have no reservations about increasing their profits and bank accounts by paying lower end wages. I see that shit up close everyday, not just in my own work, but in the lives of many people I know.

Knowing all of this and being aware of what's going on and how the system works, I'm still worried about the almost slavish devotion to Obama by his supporters. There is no knight in shining armor to save us- we've got to look  to ourselves to do that and I perceive that a lot of people are in his camp because they have unrealistic expectations of what he can do for us. I'm basing this on conversations I've had and comments I've heard made right here in Lake Worth, not just bheavior I've watched on television. .  I guess my primary concern is voters understanding that even if Obama wins (I should say "when" because he's definitely got the mad momentum going on) , things are gonna be rough for awhile. There isn't going to be any instant gratification here. This mess is going to take some time to sort out. Thanks Bush and Cheney..you fucking cocksmiths. I try not to wish harm on anyone, but I hope a horde of angry lemurs infiltrates both your homes and gives the two of you a social disease.

[PumpkinKing]

This sounds like twisted logic, but in my eyes Obama is too popular. When they had that 30 minute special about him the other night and it ended by going live to right here in South Florida at the Bank Atlantic Center,  I watched the crowds cheering and thought to myself "This isn't a politcal rally- it's a fucking rock concert!" I find that unnerving.

Remember Clinton's landslide victory against Dole?  He's still not that popular.  This is a black guy in politics... he's not exactly going to have all of America walking off of cliffs for him.  I know this just from the comments of some of my
own redneck family members.  "I don't like McCain, but...."  and I'm too ashamed to type the rest of it.

Besides it was Bush who opened Guantanamo, tapped your phone, and tried to sell your medical records to the insurance industry.

Ironcially his skin tone has never even beena factor for me. I couldn't give a crap less.  When it was suggested back in the day that Colin Powell might run for office , I was all for it. He'd have made a fantastic and honorable president.  And yeah, black man or not, there are people -millions of them- who already will walk off a cliff for Obama- just watch his supporters at any of his rallies. They're one step away from making him their new golden calf.

As to that comment about Bush: McCain notwithstanding, I do not now, never did and never will be a Bush supporter. I've never voted for him and I'm looking forward to the end of his presidency. I'm not even sure who I'm voting for. I may put a write-in down or go independent just to give the finger to the lot of them.

? ? ? ?

I'm responding to your notion that Obama is too popular and your parallels to the "most notorius figures" being ushered in on the shoulders of cheering crowds.  I'm saying not voting for him for that reason doesn't make any sense.  He's not that popular, and we've already had our dictator.

Been doing a lot of reading up on the issues and both candidates (well, more reading anyway) . Here's my overall take on the election:

Even the electoral college seems like it may be on the swing towards Obama right now. I know from watching early voting here in Fla that the people are in love with the guy.  He's extremely popular. Read a newspaper and turn on the tv. Even the press has officially gone Obamarama on us. The way I see it, Obama's plan  focuses on the here and now. Due to the craptacular economy, that's really bringing people into the mix who normally don't give a frogs fat ass about politics (so a big thumbs up to the Obama camp for that). It's ironic: Say our soldiers are still dying overseas and you generally get an "Eh, what're you gonna do?" Say the pocket book is gonna take a hit and man oh man, run for the fucking hills 'cause it's going to be Pompeii all over again(that's just an observation- I'm guilty of it as much as anyone). If there's one thing that can overcome racist notions it's the promise of not losing everything you've worked for and ending up homeless. I'd bet money that there are more people right now who have distrusted Obama because of his name and skin tone who will let it go and vote for him to save their economic ass than there are people who will take it full course and vote against him because of hate and fear.

McCain's plan is more about looking at the long term effects of the decisions he'll make in office. He's trying to start the ball rolling and set up a system that doesn't end up where we are right now when our kids are adults and have to inherit this mess.
The problem with the latter approach is that we're teetering on the edge of another depression (I love how the pundits are warning we could be headed into a recession..no, man, we are in a fucking recession) and we need to take some immediate steps to resolve the issue. While I don't believe punishing business owners by having them shoulder the burden of the tax repsonsibility is a good idea (as it does not motivate people to open or expand a business, therefore cutting back on potential jobs) the fact is, there are more employees than employers and if the middle class goes down in flames, the rest is gonna fall like a row of dominoes. Trickle down economics is a notion  that doesn't work and that's McCain's sore spot (aside from a VP choice who appears increasingly ill-prepared for the job): Whittled down to it's most succinct form, his economic plan is based on the principle that when the business owners prosper, the employees will prosper accordingly. Problem is, time and time again we've seen that people who have the most money want more money and they have no reservations about increasing their profits and bank accounts by paying lower end wages. I see that shit up close everyday, not just in my own work, but in the lives of many people I know.

Knowing all of this and being aware of what's going on and how the system works, I'm still worried about the almost slavish devotion to Obama by his supporters. There is no knight in shining armor to save us- we've got to look  to ourselves to do that and I perceive that a lot of people are in his camp because they have unrealistic expectations of what he can do for us. I'm basing this on conversations I've had and comments I've heard made right here in Lake Worth, not just bheavior I've watched on television. .  I guess my primary concern is voters understanding that even if Obama wins (I should say "when" because he's definitely got the mad momentum going on) , things are gonna be rough for awhile. There isn't going to be any instant gratification here. This mess is going to take some time to sort out. Thanks Bush and Cheney..you fucking cocksmiths. I try not to wish harm on anyone, but I hope a horde of angry lemurs infiltrates both your homes and gives the two of you a social disease.

I've been to an Obama rally, and I didn't find the fervor any more fanatical than any other rally I've been to (Bill Clinton, countless US Senate campaign rallies, state and local rallies). Yes, the people at the rallies are excited, but people at ANY rally are excited. You don't take the time out of your busy life to go see a candidate speak on the issues if you aren't one of the more vocal supporters. I'm a huge fan of Obama because I agree with him on most issues and I believe is the candidate who can best lead this country out of the current state of affairs. Of course it's going to take awhile. It will take years. But I'm not about to crown him king or pope or God. He's just a politician who I happen to support. His rallies may seem like rock concerts to those observing from the outside but that's because most Americans know just how badly we need to be lead in a different direction, and we believe we've found the candidate to do that. We're excited about the idea of change far more than we're excited about the man as a personality. It's the hope he represents, not the color of his skin or how cool he may or may not come across on tv. He's no Savior in my eyes, just the better choice for a nation that has been shat upon for 8 years.

[Splatterscribe]

I've been to an Obama rally, and I didn't find the fervor any more fanatical than any other rally I've been to (Bill Clinton, countless US Senate campaign rallies, state and local rallies). Yes, the people at the rallies are excited, but people at ANY rally are excited. You don't take the time out of your busy life to go see a candidate speak on the issues if you aren't one of the more vocal supporters. I'm a huge fan of Obama because I agree with him on most issues and I believe is the candidate who can best lead this country out of the current state of affairs. Of course it's going to take awhile. It will take years. But I'm not about to crown him king or pope or God. He's just a politician who I happen to support. His rallies may seem like rock concerts to those observing from the outside but that's because most Americans know just how badly we need to be lead in a different direction, and we believe we've found the candidate to do that. We're excited about the idea of change far more than we're excited about the man as a personality. It's the hope he represents, not the color of his skin or how cool he may or may not come across on tv. He's no Savior in my eyes, just the better choice for a nation that has been shat upon for 8 years.

I just hope everyone who votes today approaches it with this degree of clarity and intelligence, PK.

[Doomsday]

Knowing all of this and being aware of what's going on and how the system works, I'm still worried about the almost slavish devotion to Obama by his supporters. There is no knight in shining armor to save us- we've got to look  to ourselves to do that and I perceive that a lot of people are in his camp because they have unrealistic expectations of what he can do for us. I'm basing this on conversations I've had and comments I've heard made right here in Lake Worth, not just bheavior I've watched on television. .  I guess my primary concern is voters understanding that even if Obama wins (I should say "when" because he's definitely got the mad momentum going on) , things are gonna be rough for awhile. There isn't going to be any instant gratification here. This mess is going to take some time to sort out. Thanks Bush and Cheney..you fucking cocksmiths. I try not to wish harm on anyone, but I hope a horde of angry lemurs infiltrates both your homes and gives the two of you a social disease.

I still don't think comparisons to former dictators are warranted.  Two reasons I can see for his popularity are that he ran a calm campaign that wasn't grounded in negativity, and (according to what I just saw on the news) he started his ground campaign early, never stopped his campaign after the primaries (they said McCain took 5 months off while they waited to see which democrat would win), and staffed that ground campaign with knowledgeable people not just volunteers.  They said the Obama campaign knocked on 1 million doors in Ohio TODAY.  That much hard work is going to translate into the rallies somehow.  It's more hard work than we've seen from any campaign in a very long time.  I think.

But I think what people are most excited about is that someone who is not a neo-con has a very good chance of getting the office.  I don't think he's any savior.  I don't even know if he will be that great.  But the neo conservative movement threatens the US and the world, and they need to die a quick death.

If McCain had focused his campaign on disenchanted republicans and conservative democrats and tried to steer the party back to what conservatism used to be about, it would have made my choice a lot more difficult.  Instead he chose to align with Bush and his base and waged a campaign of hate and fear straight out of Karl Rove's playbook.  Bush has like a 25% approval rating right now.  That was just dumb.  If the war hawks were given no choice in either candidate, like so many other have felt for so long, they might have put the final stamp on the ilk that wants to bomb first ask questions later and turn massive surpluses into massive deficits without flinching.

Hell if the most recent guest on the Colbert Report is any indication, even war hawks are leaning towards Obama.

[MamaMeka]

Only a few more hours and Obama will be president!!!!!

[Marshal Earp]

Only a few more hours and Obama will be president!!!!!

Probably, don't blame me if 2 years down the road you're not happy with him , I voted for the other guy

[GeneralCinema]

Only a few more hours and Obama will be president!!!!!

Probably, don't blame me if 2 years down the road you're not happy with him , I voted for the other guy

I was seriously thinking about not voting today, but I bit the bullet and voted for Obama.  He was (probably) the best choice in the poll that I had.  McCain is a douchebag and Sarah Palin annoys the hell out of me.  I personally don't believe that Obama is a socialist, as many media outlets proclaim.  Is there any concrete proof of this?  Anyway, I find myself becoming more democratic as I get older, so why the hell not?

[gorific89]

Only a few more hours and Obama will be president!!!!!

Probably, don't blame me if 2 years down the road you're not happy with him , I voted for the other guy

I personally don't believe that Obama is a socialist, as many media outlets proclaim.  Is there any concrete proof of this?  Anyway, I find myself becoming more democratic as I get older, so why the hell not?

The reason everyone says he's a socialist is because of his position in "taxing the rich." Basically by raising taxes on anyone that makes more than 150,000 annually, which mind you means making 20,000 a month...I dont even make that much annually...and will not make that much at 8/hr.

Mcain is for giving taxcuts to the rich, and theres your sign.

BTW just got back from voting, if anyone hasn't they ought to be.

Oh and Earp if you were so torn between "the lesser evil" that u'd vote for mcain on default why the hell didn't you just vote for a ralph nader? or some other party.

I mean talk about slavish devotion.

"They both bad so I voted for mcain..."

 

[Splatterscribe]

Well, it's a done deal. We have watched as history was made tonight. For several reasons related directly to the issues, I openly state that Obama was not my choice, but neither do I hold the man in any contempt. He won fair and square and I wish him the best of luck because, despite my reservations on some of his policy ideas, I still think he's going to be a major improvement over the douche and his turd sandwich vp who are about to leave office. So congrats to Barack Obama!

[Doomsday]

Tonight I drink beer from my Obama beer hat.  2 cans, labeled "Hope" and "Change."

[Splatterscribe]

Tonight I drink beer from my Obama beer hat.  2 cans, labeled "Hope" and "Change."

I can raise a glass to that! Let's hope we get a healthy dose of both sooner rather than later.

[GeneralCinema]

Only a few more hours and Obama will be president!!!!!

Probably, don't blame me if 2 years down the road you're not happy with him , I voted for the other guy

I personally don't believe that Obama is a socialist, as many media outlets proclaim.  Is there any concrete proof of this?  Anyway, I find myself becoming more democratic as I get older, so why the hell not?

The reason everyone says he's a socialist is because of his position in "taxing the rich." Basically by raising taxes on anyone that makes more than 150,000 annually, which mind you means making 20,000 a month...I dont even make that much annually...and will not make that much at 8/hr.

Mcain is for giving taxcuts to the rich, and theres your sign.

BTW just got back from voting, if anyone hasn't they ought to be.

Oh and Earp if you were so torn between "the lesser evil" that u'd vote for mcain on default why the hell didn't you just vote for a ralph nader? or some other party.

I mean talk about slavish devotion.

"They both bad so I voted for mcain..."

 

I thought it was $250,000+

Well I know that I'm sure as hell not in that group.

[WL Paynecraft]

It was 250K, which eliminates 98% of the population from having tax increases.  Funny it didn't come out like that in the media. Joe the Dipshit became a freakin' hero and Obama became a Socialist.  Liberal media I guess, right?  : ) 

I heard some woman today on the radio say that she voted for McCain and one of her big reasons was that Obama allegedly didn't put his hand over his heart during the Pledge of Allegiance at some point in time.  Nice priorities.  I don't care who you vote for, but come up with something better than that.